What make GvG pvp but AB not? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Faure · Nov 02, 2010, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I'd say to play gvg correct you do need to encounter human people. To play AB correct you actually should avoid any encounter and stick to capping.

That's why i see ab as pve, altough i usually approach it pvp anyhow because i cba to cap and prefer to anoy the opp teams.

Meridon · Nov 02, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I can't use my Essence of Celerity, my Save Yourselves!, or my Pain Inverter in AB.

No, it's not PvE and it never will be. The trend that everyone seems to call it that way, and with it every flawed PvP format that relies more on random luck to win than actual skill, says more about the people designing and playing the game, than the game itself.

Dzjudz · Nov 02, 2010, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Where are my costumes in AB??!

O Bama · Nov 02, 2010, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Thanks for answers! So in general AB is pvp just "low end", "pretty lame", "not competitive" right?
Because coordination is less available it's harder to win, isn't? So you need be more skilled if you can't rely on other 2 groups in AB, then AB is more competitive and harder then GvG?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

...often you'll find good players running crappy or experimental builds because they're just there to play around or have fun. That's what I do. But I wouldn't do it in GvG.

So, is AB PvP? Yes. Is AB "Competitive" PvP? Absolutely not.

Why they not run experimental builds and just have fun in GvG?
Sorry for noobish qustions, I just try to clarify for my self (and maybe for other newbs like me).

drkn · Nov 02, 2010, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Thanks for answers! So in general AB is pvp just "low end", "pretty lame", "not competitive" right?

Not 'pretty lame'. It's just that HA and, most of all, GvG can be much easier 'converted' or perceived as a e-sport, while AB/JQ/FA and, last but not least, RA can't because of it's doze of randomness and overall design.

distilledwill · Nov 03, 2010, 09:28 AM // 09:28

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=47

Something I posted just under a year ago which reflects my views on the subject. It was about HB, but it applies just as well to AB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distilledwill

TBH HB was as much PvE as ANY other form of PvP in guild wars. The only way PvP could avoid incorporating any PvE elements would be to have 2 teams in an entirely blank and flat arena just fighting against each other.

PvE is player versus environment.
The shape of the landscape in HA, RA, GvG, HB etc etc drastically affects whether one person holds an advantage over another - this is even more evident with the more active landscape elements (eg, the catapult in gvg, the tar pits in RA) which can drastically affect play. It is PvE.

The NPCs found in GvG, HA, RA etc etc etc etc are another obvious example of PvE in PvP.

Similarly, often kills gained by physical attackers are helped along by whether or not the person achieves a critical hit - this is based upon luck, not player skill (outside of the increased chance given due to certain skills/higher chance with a higher point distribution). Luck is, therefore, relatively external to player input, it is, therefore a product of the player environment (as created by the rules of the game). It is PvE.

HB was an example of where you must deal with player(s), his allied NPCs and the landscape in order to win. Just like every single other PvP form in guild wars.

Xenomortis · Nov 03, 2010, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

False. You need to kill NPCs to cap bases. If you want to bring up that you can win AB without capping bases, you can also win GvG by giving the opposing team 60% DP, without needing to kill any NPC in the process. It's possible to win both formats without killing NPCs, but it's highly, highly unfeasible in both cases.

I would say it's more likely in GvG than AB. Although not killing the Footmen etc would be ill-advised.

AB is disorganised. You have control over your party, which forms a third of your team, the rest might as well be random. Any team based game where the team does not have an overall structure might as well be a random format - it simply can not be competitive as is.

Then there's the fact most of the people playing AB are hilariously inept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=47

Something I posted just under a year ago which reflects my views on the subject. It was about HB, but it applies just as well to AB.

Your misinterpretation of what is meant by "PvE" is somewhat... laughable.

nem coke · Nov 03, 2010, 10:27 AM // 10:27

First of all, OP didn't ask why is gvg pvp and ab pve, so those that are trying to prove that AB is pvp should read the posts twice.

The question the OP asked is why is GvG TRUE form of pvp and AB is not. It's because it's the best structure of pvp ever made, in any MMO, hands down. AB is casual form of pvp. So GvG = high end pvp, AB = casual/ low end.

Those claiming that GvG is only slightly harder than AB... well they have no clue about it, no offense.

EDIT: Oh and cut the ''where do you kill more npcs'' discussion, it's dumb.

Warvic · Nov 03, 2010, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=47

Something I posted just under a year ago which reflects my views on the subject. It was about HB, but it applies just as well to AB.

Thanks for the laugh.

Meridon · Nov 03, 2010, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by nem coke

First of all, OP didn't ask why is gvg pvp and ab pve, so those that are trying to prove that AB is pvp should read the posts twice.

I completely disagree with people who say that some PvP formats are more PvP than others. This Animal Farm-like approach is ridiculous because it's based only on user bias. My point is that the only thing that makes something PvP or not is this. Any discussion beyond that is pointless.

nem coke · Nov 03, 2010, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

I completely disagree with people who say that some PvP formats are more PvP than others. This Animal Farm-like approach is ridiculous because it's based only on user bias. My point is that the only thing that makes something PvP or not is this. Any discussion beyond that is pointless.

Read twice, I'm not saying that AB isn't pvp, nobody is saying that some formats are more pvp than others, just high end and low end/casual.

IrishX · Nov 03, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

When people say that AB is PvE, what they really mean is that it feels like PvE. Due to the large focus on killing NPCs and the fact you never have to engage another team to win (also possible in GvG, but never happens as both teams must be willing to full team lord rush from the start), causes it to have a very "PvEish" vibe.

In addition, the relatively low skill level of the players means that most decent players can EXPECT to win every skirmish, even when they have a numerical disadvantage. I know when I AB with my friends, we will regularly engage a larger group (even going 4v12) if our team is either ahead on flags or are actually capping, and will quite often either wipe them, or stall them long enough for our team to get a huge flag advantage.

Meridon · Nov 03, 2010, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by nem coke

Read twice, I'm not saying that AB isn't pvp, nobody is saying that some formats are more pvp than others, just high end and low end/casual.

So, according to you, GvG is True PvP, and AB is not, yet GvG is not more PvP than AB? I'm sorry, but that sounds like a paradox. Also, please don't say I should read twice. I know what you're saying, I just don't agree with you at this point.

bottlew · Nov 03, 2010, 06:57 PM // 18:57

it is pvp just bottom of the totem pole

Nov 02, 2010, 06:02 PM // 18:02	#21
Faure Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: Mystic Spiral [MYST] Profession: R/	I'd say to play gvg correct you do need to encounter human people. To play AB correct you actually should avoid any encounter and stick to capping. That's why i see ab as pve, altough i usually approach it pvp anyhow because i cba to cap and prefer to anoy the opp teams. Last edited by Faure; Nov 02, 2010 at 06:16 PM // 18:16..

Nov 02, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41	#22
Meridon Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2008 Guild: Funny Business Inc [FBI]	I can't use my Essence of Celerity, my Save Yourselves!, or my Pain Inverter in AB. No, it's not PvE and it never will be. The trend that everyone seems to call it that way, and with it every flawed PvP format that relies more on random luck to win than actual skill, says more about the people designing and playing the game, than the game itself.

Nov 02, 2010, 08:09 PM // 20:09	#23
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	Where are my costumes in AB??!

Nov 03, 2010, 10:27 AM // 10:27	#28
nem coke Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2006 Guild: What Are We Doing [Here]	First of all, OP didn't ask why is gvg pvp and ab pve, so those that are trying to prove that AB is pvp should read the posts twice. The question the OP asked is why is GvG TRUE form of pvp and AB is not. It's because it's the best structure of pvp ever made, in any MMO, hands down. AB is casual form of pvp. So GvG = high end pvp, AB = casual/ low end. Those claiming that GvG is only slightly harder than AB... well they have no clue about it, no offense. EDIT: Oh and cut the ''where do you kill more npcs'' discussion, it's dumb.

Nov 03, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19	#32
IrishX Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2008 Profession: W/	When people say that AB is PvE, what they really mean is that it feels like PvE. Due to the large focus on killing NPCs and the fact you never have to engage another team to win (also possible in GvG, but never happens as both teams must be willing to full team lord rush from the start), causes it to have a very "PvEish" vibe. In addition, the relatively low skill level of the players means that most decent players can EXPECT to win every skirmish, even when they have a numerical disadvantage. I know when I AB with my friends, we will regularly engage a larger group (even going 4v12) if our team is either ahead on flags or are actually capping, and will quite often either wipe them, or stall them long enough for our team to get a huge flag advantage.

Nov 03, 2010, 06:57 PM // 18:57	#34
bottlew Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ???????????? Guild: :3 Profession: Mo/E	it is pvp just bottom of the totem pole